Toxic Narcotic - full transcription from our Issue #8 interview

(by Jay Hale)

Here is the full, unedited transcription of our Toxic Narcotic interview with Bill Damon, Will Sullivan and Seager Tennis. It's long but if you like Boston DIY punk, you'll thoroughly enjoy it!

Q: If someone told you 15 years ago that Toxic Narcotic would be playing hardcore punk in the year 2004, would you have believed them? What’s it like being in a band that’s been putting out music for a decade and a half?

Bill: I didn’t expect to be alive right now! Most of my friends that have known me that long are surprised too! I only drink after dark or on weekends now! Also when Toxic Narcotic started we were not very good at playing our instruments, but we were playing big shows and a lot of people thought that we sucked. You have to understand that everyone was in a shitty high school band at some point in their life. We are in that same band just fifteen years later. When we started we were playing shows in front of huge audiences with barely six original songs and no idea what the hell we were doing. Plus we were all raging alcoholics and/or drug addicts. I have met a lot of people in Boston who say, “I heard your band sucks” but have never seen us play or heard our records. This is because years ago they heard about us. But a lot has changed since the early years. Most other musicians get to leave behind there past but were stuck with it. That’s one of the setbacks with being in the same band for so long. Most other musicians’ present bands’ are not being judged by the quality of their high school band. A lot people that used to see us back then are shocked when they see us now and they cant believe it’s the same band! When we started the band, punk was not very popular in Boston, especially anything brutal or political. The word “crust” still referred to the edge of your pizza. It was not the cheesy catch phrase later applied to brutal thrash influenced punk bands that usually had political lyrics! Between the fact that we were not playing the music that everyone was into and we weren’t very good at playing either, most people thought we sucked and talked shit about us. This made us angrier than anything else so we worked harder. Our hatred for some people in Boston kept us going for all these years. And we thank you!

Will: It just seems natural. Playing this kind of music is a release that I think everyone needs in their life, venting, and a way to spray the poison inside out all over everyone. Playing in this scene is great too. I’ve met people and been places that I would probably never have been just because I play music. And when we come to town, people know they’re going to have a good agro time and sing along, everyone has a blast, we leave, then come back and hurt shit again. What’s it like for fifteen years? Whew, has it been that long? It’s like life. Oh, I don’t think I’ve ever been a drug addict, but I got my ass kicked by a bottle of scotch one time.

Q: Boston has certainly changed over the past 15 years. How has it affected the band? Has Toxic had to adapt to the city’s metamorphosis? How has a lack of an all-ages venue hindered the band?

Bill: The underground music scene has definitely gotten larger in the number of people going to shows, bands, record labels magazines, etc…. but the amount of clubs and outlets for bands to play have decreased. Boston is now the purveyor of many of the bigger bands in underground music worldwide. But most of the bands have few places to play in their own city. Unfortunately the city of Boston seems to have little respect for what is a large part of this cities economy. Toxic Narcotic has never really changed what we were doing to adapt to any changes in the local scene. I have watched different styles of music come and go and different bands play the role. For fifteen years I watched the flavors of the week come and go and we are still here. I seen those flavors of the week act elitist, and egotistical for that couple of years that they were actually able to fill a club in Boston. Now they are nowhere and no one gives a fuck about them or the band they used to be in. The one thing that hasn’t changed is hardcore punk. No matter what flavor is popular at the moment the DIY Hardcore Punk scene will always be there. This is why Toxic Narcotic can still fill a club anywhere in the world. While some of the people that used to talk shit about us are putting price tags on our records at their meaningless job. Karma is a bitch!

Will: At the very beginning it helped form us. By 89-90 the underground scene in Boston was lacking, if not dead. We rehearsed in the basements of big party houses, so on a tiny pallet stage we started getting bands to come by. Any night of the week, we could pack the basement with a free show, with kegs, and pass out the hat for traveling bands. It’s true and it sucks that a lot of good places to play have been shut down. Show’s go on in halls for the kids, but everyone knows the hall is going to switch every month or two. Maybe if kids didn’t piss all over the places they want to keep open…

Q: You told me over the phone the last time we spoke that one of the weird things about Toxic is that the band is not as big in its own home town as it is in the rest of the nation. Why do you think that is? What size venues do you play out of town? How are the crowds?

Bill: Its not that I think we are less popular in Boston but with few venues for us to play all ages shows, we just started playing all over the country and doing really well in other cities. We could go out of state and headline shows that we would draw 300-500 people and we could barely draw 200 in Boston on a good day! Also Boston has so many bands and so many shows all going on at the same time. So maybe we only brought 200 people into Bill’s Bar on a Sunday afternoon, but the Bosstones were playing a show at the exact same time next door at Axis. I even saw people wearing Toxic Narcotic shirts going into their show. That’s common in Boston, with so much music going on in such a small city that often there is several shows on the same day or weekend that people get burned out. Plus everything is so expensive here that you cant afford to go to every show you want to. In other cities the cost of living is less so people can afford to come out to more shows.

Seager:We have a great following on the west coast, more than anywhere else. Where there are more people, there are more punks! That seems to be a formula that works all over. If a city is a certain size, you can expect a certain size crowd, but there are a few exceptions. There have been random weeknight shows in the middle of nowhere that where just packed you know? Young folks are desperate for diversion.

Will: Back in the day we opened up for some national act, and they came out and played to no one because they all left during our set, we cleared the club. We always get an extreme reaction from people. If a person doesn’t like the band, they fucking HATE the band. They’ll write their friends to let them know, too. Those people are far between. The people that like us, REALLY FUCKING LIKE US!!! They’ll scream in your or my face to prove it. We got a letter from a kid, thanking us for helping him through tough times. Every time he needed vent, he could yell PEOPLE SUCK, ASSHOLE ASSHOLE! And FUCK YOU FUCK THIS FUCK THAT FUCK THEM WE ARE ALL DOOMED WHAT”S THE USE? FUCK THE WORLD AND PASS THE BOOZE!!! Eventually he did not kill himself or others, and got through his situation. At least that what he told us!

Q: A lot of bands claim to give back to their hometown scene. This couldn’t be truer than with what Toxic has done with Rodent Popsicle. Rodent Pop was one of the first labels that put out a band DVD. How much pride do you take in your label?

Bill: Its not like we really take pride in our label but we have done a lot for the local scene! Some people may not like Toxic Narcotic or the label we run, but no one can say that we ever compromised our beliefs or integrity. For fifteen years we have always remained true to our DIY ethic and supported our local scene. We have booked hundreds of shows for local and touring bands, and released countless local bands on our record label! This year we are planning to rent a big club in Boston and do a free show to celebrate our 15th anniversary. How many bands do that? We feel like this is the least we can do to thank everyone who has supported us. It will be filmed for a new Toxic Narcotic DVD and everyone is welcome! This will happen sometime in the fall of 2004. As far as the Toxic Narcotic “Live In LA” DVD is concerned, we are technically the first band to self-release a DVD ever! In the whole world ever!

Q: Right now the punk scene is very fragmented with each sub genre of punk playing their own shows. Oi bands play with other oi bands, hardcore bands with hardcore bands … Do you find it hard for a band like Toxic, one that mixes so many styles, to fit in?

Bill: We don’t care about fitting in, and we don’t care about genres or what people classify us as. That’s why we try to play shows with all kinds of different bands. I have heard people call us Punk, Hardcore, Crust, etc… all I know is we play whatever we want with little regard to what people think. If we want to mix Reggae with Grindcore we will do it! People who don’t like it can go fuck themselves!

Will: We have never written songs with the end user in mind. I think we get a good cross section of many different scenes coming to Toxic shows. We’re too hardcore for the punks, too punk for the metal heads, etc. We’re too aggressive for the standstills. When we played with bagpipes, a kid in Tijuana told us how uncool it was. At one point in the early nineties, we had almost a full reggae set. Back then, hardcore and punk hadn’t really split yet, and once they did, the whole thing fractioned and factioned.

Q: Have you noticed much violence at your shows locally and nationwide? Is it on an upswing? Recently there was some talk of it back on the rise back in Boston and was interested if it had affected you?

Bill: Like most people I hate violence at shows but lets face it, it is a violent world. I personally haven’t noticed anything change over the years. It’s always the same shit different city. Sometimes justified but usually not! If anything I would say that things are better today than ever before.

Seager:Its actually kind of rare at our shows. Aside from your average mosh pit injury, I rarely see intentional beatings of people. There are other bands that draw a much more meat headed element than we do, and for that, I am grateful. I’ve seen some pretty disturbing shit happen outside of shows before and after though…

Will: I’m not an anarchist, but I see it passing by. The fights outside bars, clubs, everywhere else. That’s right, the world is a violent place. People always considered Boston an agro city, because when we dance, we go in swinging our boots and fists. Some of the most violent shows I’ve been to have been in Boston. It must be the weather.

Q: Is it odd to see bands, like Dropkick Murphys and The Unseen, who you’ve shared bills with down at The Rat and at various VFW halls become nationwide touring machines that play the Warped Tour? Have you ever wanted to be one of those bands?

Bill: We are friends with some of the members of those bands and we’re happy for them and all their success but we have choose a more DIY path for Toxic Narcotic. And no we have never wanted to be one of those bands! But Toxic Narcotic has also become a touring machine and we have been at it constantly for the last ten years all over the US and Europe! The difference is that no one has helped us out. We would tour as much as any band except we can’t afford it. The bottom line is this; if you open up for national tours you will gain a fan base quicker than playing at halls and DIY shows. Even if you’re the opener on a national tour you may not get paid much to open up but you sell so much merchandise it doesn’t matter. Both the bands mentioned above opened a national band by their second tour ever. We never got to open a national until 2003! That means almost fifteen independent DIY US tours for Toxic Narcotic and one in Europe! That means we booked it, promoted it, and funded everything involved which is much harder to do than being on a label and having a lot of the work and funds taken care of. Considering we have so many so called friends in many national touring bands none of them have offered to get us on a tour or even open up a local show for years! Strange isn’t it!

Will: We definitely give them their props, but we have never wanted to be on the Warped tour.

Bill: In fact we have had the opportunity to get on parts of the warped tour for years now and we refuse to be part of it! As far as the Dropkicks and Unseen are concerned they have worked hard and deserve what they have got. But there are many bands involved with the commercial/warped tour so called punk scene that just blow up and have not toured for years to create a following! Some bands just come out of nowhere and get everything handed to them. It’s the mushroom and pile of dirt theory!

Will: Our philosophy as a band has always been that we are a pile of dirt that just keeps growing. Sometimes a band will blow up like a mushroom, and get popular, but it has no base, and eventually topples over. Our pile never gets smaller, even if you kick it. The hill keeps spreading out until everyone’s dirty.

Bill: To us the DIY path is the only way for Toxic because we believe that integrity and respect are more important than anything else. We have complete control and ownership of all our music and merchandise. And no one tells us what we can and can’t do! It takes a lot more hard work to be self sufficient as a DIY band, but in the long run it’s worth it!

Q: What are some of the problems with today’s punk scene and how can we fix them? This doesn’t just mean locally. Do you think kids try hard enough to set up shows? There doesn’t really seem like a lot of DIY stuff going on anymore.

Bill: Personally I believe that DIY was one of the most important aspects of punk music. Everywhere I look I see the affects of the corporate world on todays so called Punk and Hardcore scenes. Even in commercials for faucets and deodorant. The people mostly responsible for the blatant commercialization of Punk & Hardcore are the bands themselves. They are concerned with fame, money not integrity and respect! No one forced these bands to be part of warped tour, make videos for MTV, or appear on the cover of Rolling Stone. I believe that musicians need to get paid what they deserve but there has to be a limit and each band has to decide for themselves were they draw the line and they have to live with it in the long run. The consumers of cheese only want fresh cheese. No one wants old cheese! This is why the bands that used to be famous in the glam metal scene can’t even sell out a shitty club in the sticks anymore. The same thing will happen to most of the bands in today’s commercial punk scene. The music industry itself is the most corrupt and cutthroat business ever. We all know the ways major labels operate but now many of the Punk labels, promoters and booking agents working the same way. Ever wonder why all the same bands get every tour while many great bands never get to play. Its all politics, money and competition plus a healthy bit of back stabbing! Whatever happened to working together? Well the sad fact is few people ever believed in that anyway.

Also another problem is that many of the smaller political DIY labels are as capitalist as the labels they claim to be opposed to. Countless bands I know have told me about selling a large amount of records and getting paid shit. This is done under the guise of ”it’s not punk to ask to be paid what your band deserves” or “it’s not punk to have a contract” and the band gets screwed. Sometimes a label just plain lies about the number of records they’ve sold. I’ve seen it happen over and over and I have countless friends in bands that have been ripped off! For a band to remain DIY and keep their integrity and actually tour or play shows regularly is an expensive endeavor. The up keep of a van can be extremely expensive let alone surviving on the road if you ever tour. Musicians have been getting screwed since day one and that’s no surprise. But to have it happen constantly in our own scene is a disgrace. And it helps to cause bands to avoid the DIY scene because of the few people that continue to do this.

When I was younger there were countless independent clubs, record stores, and DIY labels with the mom& pops’ ethic. Most of these are gone because they couldn’t compete with the corporate. I blame a lot of this on the bands that choose the corporate clubs to get their guarantee rather than play the independent clubs. Usually small clubs wont offer a guarantee but if you draw a lot of people you will get paid the same. But most bands want the money and the cool club because it has better advertising and corporate sponsors that will promote this band to new people. What I am saying is that by not supporting our scene we are destroying our scene. Because all the small venues have shut down it is really hard for new bands to tour and get known. All of the popular bands were locals once and started out in this way but now that they are popular they could care less. If you think I’m wrong start a band and see if any of your so-called friends in one of these popular bands takes you on tour with them and gives you a break! It won’t happen! There still is a strong DIY scene across the world just not so much in Boston. I have seen a couple of clubs in different cities owned by band members and these are some of my favorite places to play. It would be great to see that happen in Boston but what it really takes is a lot of unappreciated hard work and money.

Will: Well said!

Q: Should we expect more releases on Go-Kart?

Bill: We have a split Full length with Misery (from Minneapolis) coming out in July on Go-Kart and we just released a new EP called “Shoot People, Not Dope” on our own label! We are presently working on our next full length and we are not sure who we are going to release it with. But we run our own label so were not concerned with that at the moment!

Q: What’s up next for Toxic?

Bill: We will keep touring and playing but I don’t have much hope for the future! Were All Doomed! Be prepared for a Gasmask future! 5 Billion People Will Die!

Seager:Yea, we are all dead. If terrorism doesn’t get us, the comet in 2012 will. Ciao!

Will: Continue spitting poison and spreading the dirt!